Day 27 of Oath Keepers Trial - Nov 15
Yesterday morning, Judge Mehta said the testimony of Mike Nichols and the OKs rescue video couldn't be shown because:
1 - No indicted co-conspirators were present.
2 - The closest OKs he could see were at least 10-15 away, (“maybe further”) and there's no evidence they were helping.
None of that is true.
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Judge Mehta takes the bench at 9:31am . . .
Thomas Caldwell will testify today!
Ed Tarpley came forward to ask permission to present to the judge the photos of the OKs co-conspirators shown working with Mike Nichols, (the denied defense witness yesterday). Mehta said, “yes Mr. Nestler told me about it this morning.” Mehta has agreed to look at the photos during the first morning break.
Jury seated at 9:36am . . .
Fischer calls Thomas Caldwell to the stand . . .
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Caldwell is a 100% service connected disabled veteran. He has a long family history of military service. He served over 19 years active duty in the Navy. Honorably discharged. Earned several medals.
Caldwell is led through a long discussion of his early service record and deployment in the Philippines and the injuries he suffered from either an IED or 105 howitzer round.
Fischer asked about his military disability payments, and while Caldwell was about to answer, Nestler twice objected . . . <sidebar> . . . (point being, Nestler didn’t want him telling the jury that his disability payments were suspended when he was charged in these crimes) . . . Nestler won. Rephrase…
Back to detailed description of the various back surgeries related to his service injuries, as well as shower and hip replacement surgeries.
Long discussion of his need for the use of a walking cane. How often he uses, and when he doesn’t use it. Photos from vacations before J6, using cane. Obviously - discussion of how he was able to get around on J6 without his cane. They are revisiting the government’s presentation of a video, in which shown in full context shows Caldwell was given assistance in order to get over a short wall.
Caldwell had “Top Secret Code Word” security clearance in Navy, and never lost that clearance.
Gave about a 3-hour interview after his arrest. Fischer brings a photo of an “inert hand grenade” into evidence - given to Caldwell by his father, acquired as a souvenir while in Korean war. <long side bar>
Discussion of inert grenade continues, about FBI discovering the grenade while they were doing interview. Objections, and Mehta is getting impatient with the discussion, and tells Fischer to move on.
***(NOTE: That was the fourth time in this testimony Mehta has forced them to move more quickly, or move along, or move on. Mehta is clearly frustrated that Caldwell decided to testify in is own defense. This has the possibility of throwing Metha’s rush-job to get this case to the jury before Thanksgiving of schedule. Mehta impatience is on display today. He may also be frustrated by the fact he has to revisit his Mike Nichols ruling from yesterday, yet again.)***
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I’m back from my appearance on TNN Live. Caldwell is still under direct questioning by his attorney, Fischer.
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Morning break called at 11:11am . . .
1:37 time stamp. Video of Ricky Jackson and Brian Ulrich (indicted co-conspirator) with hands on shoulders of police escorted by Ofc. Tarik Johnson & Mike Nichols. Following footage is of “stack 2” in line with Capitol police to enter building to assist police to get out.
https://twitter.com/helpstophate/status/1574545660199981056?s=46&t=acdvdEbWI6i-1RtDpe3V7A…
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Mehta back, Caldwell on stand (11:29) . . . waiting on jury’s return . . . 11:32 . . .
Begins with discussion of the suspension of his Zello account before J6. Then the booking of his his hotel for event at The Ellipse in DC for the event. Questions about his involvement with QRF at the hotel. Says there was none. He and wife were given Oath Keeper t-shirts, in hopes they could get in on the OKs VIP passes where there would be chairs - but that didn’t happen.
Discussion of the old Western Auto .22 he brought to VA hotel. Non-working “wall hanger.” Brought no ammo. Only brought the antique to show Paul Stamey. Discusses the guns he had back home. 65-70 weapons. ARs, AKs, .50 Cal. and many others, obviously. Amateur gun smithing, target shooting, collecting of antiques, including family heirlooms used in older wars.
Showing email with maps of DC Caldwell sent to Paul Stamey, with recommended directions into the city. Discussion about knowledge of road closures and such.
Discussion about his knowledge of OKs QRFs. He was not coordinating or leading the QRF on J6. He was with his wife “to hear the president speak.” He knew nothing of the AZ OK QRF, or the FL OK QRF. he took no boat to DC, (to carry weapons across the Potomac.)
He “owns” his “creative writing” in messages talking about “heavy weapons.” “Just got carried away.”
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Talks about the details of his day on J6, finding parking, finding a place in “massive” crowd on Washington Monument lawn to watch the speech. Never saw Rhodes or Michael Greene that day. Took lots of photos, and never deleted any of them. Copied his and his wife’s photos onto back-up hard drives. When FBI came, he still possessed every single photo and video they took on J6. The FBI seized his devices, and all have been returned . . . expect for his phone . . . but all those images still reside on the phone as well.
When they were walking to the Capitol, he’d been looking for a bench, but didn’t find anywhere to sit until he got to the Peace Fountain.
“How did you manage to get around that day?” (Despite his infirmities..) “Lot’s of drugs . . . prescription drugs.” Describes taking twice the normal dosage of Opana (an opioid) and others, to help him with pain and to walk the long distances.
He had no contact with Rhodes that day, but did try to communicate with Jessica Watkins. (He and his wife like her.) He delivered no instructions to her to invade the Capitol.
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Caldwell admits to making “provocative” statements on video that ended up viral on the internet. Has never been inside the Capitol, even J6. Describes running around the Capitol and up and down steps as a kid - living in and around DC. Last worked in DC in 1987.
There were no barriers or signs or police by the time he and wife arrived at Capitol Building, and began going up stairs on west side. In the location where he was, he could see no violence, but did observe those who were climbing on the inaugural scaffolding. Says it concerned him for their safety.
Shows the photo we’ve seen several times which is was confused at one point to be ‘inside’ the Capitol, but is most definitely a shot of a temporary structure on the outside as part of the inaugural set-up.
Never saw any police officers being assaulted. He and his wife never assaulted any police or damaged property. They never forced their way through any barriers. Discusses the private messages to friends where he “sardonically” talked about “here we are, storming the Capitol.” . . . because he was getting messages of that happening, but was not seeing that himself, from his own vantage point.
Those he sent the messages to are people who are familiar with his physical limitations, and would have known he wasn’t capable of doing those things.
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He’s got to “own” the Nancy Pelosi door knob comment. Says she was a good person to pick on at that time. When he was talking about “rubber bullets,” he said he was mocking the medias reports, because they couldn’t see what was being reported. in all his own photos and videos, there are none showing violence - corroborating his accounting of what they could and couldn’t see.
When he said “We” took a police shield . . . he had seen one passed over people’s heads . . . it was a “collective WE,” obviously something they never actually did. He said he was just giving a play-by-play description of what he was seeing to the people getting his messages back home.
Did you ever conspire to commit a seditious conspiracy? . . . No sir.
Then the long line of typical questions denying the charges they all face. . . . No sir.
No further questions . . .
Mehta announces lunch break at 12:22pm, and dismisses jury . . .
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Mehta wants to chat about scheduling. Asks Crips about his next witnesses - if available when cross and redirect of Caldwell or done. “Are the available tomorrow?” One has a scheduling problem tomorrow, and they again talk about doing things “out of turn.”
Here we go . . . Tarpley returns to raise the issue of Mehta’s ruling against the testimony of Nichols yesterday. He reminds the Court that the reason for the ruling is that the co-conspirators were not in the vicinity. He has two photos verifying the presence of the co-conspirator with Tarik Johnson and Mike Nichols.
Mehta is clearly agitated. First rebukes Tarpley, because he is the attorney for Rhodes - who has already rested their case - and then Juli Haller comes forward - for Meggs - to argue the case. She is impassioned, but Mehta continues to contend that Nichols acted totally alone in his interactions with Lt. Johnson, with no assistance from the co-conspirators.
Nestler shows CCTV video (which we can’t see), saying it shows no connection of co-conspirators between Nichols and Johnson’s effort. Mehta is highly frustrated with the entire presentation and equally dismissive of the defense arguments as irrelevant to the defendants in the case.
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***Haller does get into the record Judge Mehta’s previous statement - during her cross of Officer Salky - when he told her she COULD get that video in with the right witness. (She quoted him directly from the transcript.***
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Defense is having a horrible time getting an alternate video to sync with court’s equipment. (I’m surprised Mehta hasn’t blown a gasket yet.) Seems they finally have it going. All we can hear is audio. Defense now showing a 2nd video. Again, all we have is audio of crowd noise. (We can’t see videos or images in media room until they are actually moved “into evidence.”)
Mehta says that neither of those videos change any of his previously stated views. “No probative value.” His ruling against the submission of the video and witnesses stands.
***I’d remind everyone that the government has been allowed to present videos of violence and barrier breaches in which which the OKs were not present or involved, by people with which they have no connection, and with whom the government has made no effort to make or infer a connection, yet, Mehta has disallowed the effort to show how other OKs assisted Capitol police.
Finally, Mehta moved his own bar from yesterday, when said:
1 - No indicted co-conspirators were present.
2 - The closest OKs he could see were at least 10-15 away.
The photos and videos presented today showed that was not true.
Mehta dismisses everyone at 12:59pm for lunch.
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Mehta returns at 1:59pm . . . Jury reseated at 2:02pm
The government’s cross of Caldwell will be postponed until after the testimony of a witness for Watkins is presented, (due to scheduling conflicts). Crisp - for Watkins - calls Brendan Dillon . . . was in the Navy just shy of four years. Gunners mate.
Met Watkins through the bar she was running at the time. She recruited him into the OSRM (Ohio State Regular Militia), primarily to provided assistance to law enforcement and render medical aid. His town of Woodstock, OH is only 400 people and had no formal law enforcement agency.
The most members of the OSRM was four members. (Watkins, Siniff, Crowl, and Dillons.) Discusses possible training with the group - which didn’t happen. He had background in military law enforcement and weapons training. He did not go to the Million MAGA March, and they rescheduled training to early January - which was then disrupted by J6 event.
Went to the Louisville, KY event, and also supported a small parade in his area. There was no consideration in their planned training about disrupting the election, but they did discuss being prepared for a “Red Dawn” type event from a foreign invader. (Chinese invasion across the Canadian border!)
OSRM was never considered an offensive force.
No further questions . . .
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Gov begins cross . . . Not an OK, and never used Signal. Doesn’t know any of the other defendants in this case. Wasn’t as active in OSRM as he’d like to have been because work and car difficulties. Never attended any event in DC. Was invited to MMM, but could not attend.
Showed text from Watkins saying they shouldn’t bring firearms to Capitol, but be ready for “hand to hand combat.”
Never joined the OKs.
No further questions . . .
Crisp begins redirect. Asked what he understood Watkins meant. There was no direct conversation about the legality of firearms in DC, but the hand-to-hand was inferred to be used only if attacked.
There were no detailed discussion about what they be doing at MMM. “Were you going attack people?” . . . “No, that’s not hat we do.” Had no other interactions with the OKs.
No further questions . . .
Caldwell returns to stand for cross examination.
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Manzo begins direct with discussion about his photos from ‘Recce,’ (Recon) and the fact a bank building he photographed in DC was next to the DOJ . . . implying Caldwell had a problem with DOJ not investigating the election.
Then asked about his many uses of the phrase ‘Antifa hunting.” Asked why he thinks it’s appropriate to hunt human beings. Caldwell says, Manzo was “spinning” the word improperly, and that he used it in the same manner the Guardian Angels used it, as unarmed patrols of city and subways.
Being asked what he dislikes and supports violence against BLM. Caldwell denies that. Manzo calls for an image to be brought up . . . <objection> . . . <long sidebar> . . . <really long sidebar> . . .
Manzo returns and abandons the BLM line . . . goes to questions about the QRF in VA hotel. Caldwell denies that he is involved in coordination of the QRF.
Manzo asks about slides inferring there could be a civil war if the Biden administration abandoned the constitution. “Good thing they didn’t abandon the constitution, or a lot of people would be angry!”
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And begins the barrage of slides of Caldwells hyperbolic language . . . “We could have burned congress to the ground . . . “ Caldwell refuses to comment unless he shows what messages he was responding to. (This was after MMM event in DC, in Nov of ’20)
Without getting into great detail about what is now happening . . . because we all know . . . we are going to go through slide after slide of messages - most we’ve already seen in this trial, or Caldwell’s often inflammatory and hyperbolic language. I’ll try and add in any new ones we’ve not yet seen three or four times already.
A new message about obtaining a ‘suppressor kit.’ Caldwell says that’s not a “silencer.” Manzo says it is. Caldwell says, “you want me to explain it to you?” Manzo says his attorney can bring that up on redirect.
As Manzo plows through these old messages, Caldwell often tries to explain the context hasn’t meaning to the implications.
Manzo presses him on why he “unsent” 180 FB messages. They go back and forth in a manner that doesn’t work well for Caldwell. He won’t expound upon the content of specific messages he unsent, but says he was endeavoring to get off FB. But, why random? What was hiding? Things that could him in trouble?
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One message exchange in which he said he’d start a civil war “on the night of the 6th,” Caldwell says . . . “Well, I didn’t.” Same with and another round of messages in which Caldwell either said was GOING to do things, or ones in which he SAID he did things he didn’t do . . . “But I didn’t do those things.” Manzo: “But you said you did.” Caldwell: “Like a lot of things I said I did, which I didn’t.”
Caldwell: “I’m glad nothing happened.”
Manzo: “Something did happen. January 6th happened.”
Caldwell: “January 6th did happen. But I didn’t make it happen.”
More video we’ve already seen. More photos. More inflammatory statements.
Caldwell: “These are private moments, that no one would have been offended by had the FBI not invaded our home.”
The general and repeated exchange between Manzo and Caldwell is:
-Manzo shows message slide of something inflammatory Caldwell said . . .
-Caldwell says, “yes, I said that” . . .
-Manzo says, “it’s fair to say you meant that/did that?” . . .
-Caldwell says, “I never did that.” . . . (And, in fact, he never did those things, but he did say a lot of sh-t.)
Mehta announces afternoon break at 3:28pm
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Mehta back at 3:49pm - immediately goes to sidebar . . . jury reseated at 3:54pm . . .
Manzo continues cross of Caldwell with admission of new video and chat. Video of Sen Graham being accosted in an airport by protestors . . . Caldwell replying something inflammatory.
More revolutionary, civil war kind of messages. Manzo plays his roll as prosecutor. Caldwell continues to say they are representative of they way he speaks with his friends. (“What a goof.” “I’m sure he’ll think differently when he sobers up.”)
Caldwell denies that he’s deleted every message he exchanged with Donovan Crowl. Manzo presses him about the 180 FB messages he’d unsent. Shows a response to something he unsent. Caldwell denies or doesn’t recall what they were responding to. Then Manzo jumps back to text messages.
One exchange was a response to one of his unseen FB messages, where someone said “stacking them 6x3.” Caldwell denied knowing what that actually meant. Then Manzo shows him one of his own text messages where Caldwell describes “stacking them 6x3” in great detail. (Ooops.)
Now we’re seeing battles over introductions of new messages. Objections. Sidebars. Mehta frustrated.
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***NOTE: The government has captured a treasure trove of the worst kind of language anyone could possibly have said leading up to, on, and after those various DC events - including J6. Obviously, he never expected these messages to ever be read by anyone else other than his friends and associates. The scariest thing to me, is NOT Caldwell’s messages. It’s that I know guys who talk just like this. Frankly, I’m more afraid of the government that can send me to prison for 20 years, for scary words, than I am of scary words.***
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(Mehta actually instructs the jury that these statements made by Mr Caldwell should not be held against the other defendants.)
One last message salvo from Manzo, then . . . no further questions . . .
Mehta calls a sidebar . . .
Crisp - for Watkins - comes forward for redirect about one message related to Watkins.
Once again, Mehta announces a postponement of Caldwell’s redirect, to accommodate another witness with scheduling problems.
Fischer - for Caldwell - calls Delany Washington , from Mibben, VA. has known Caldwell since 1979, and they served in the Navy together. Witness also held security clearance. Says he’s a pastor of a Baptist church. Basically says he trusts Caldwell implicitly. Immediately goes to cross from Manzo, who asks him a series of questions that might affect his trust in Caldwell, without providing specific incidences. Gets some nos, some yeses, then done in a minute. No redirect. Shortest testimony of this trial. Less than five minutes.
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Fischer now begins redirect of Caldwell . . . Immediately begins allowing Caldwell to explain the difference between a suppressor and a silencer.
Fischer takes Caldwell quickly through a series of other FB messages which he had unsent messages prior to J6. Also messages which he had unsent on FB then resent on text.
So, this proceeds as an equal and opposite rapid fire presentation of innocuous personal messages in response to unsent FB messages, about topics completely unrelated to J6, DC, rallies, and the like.
Mehta calls for adjournment for the day at 4:59pm. Dismisses jury.
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Mehta preps for Jury instruction session, and has to deal with a transport issue for Rhodes, as his jail is further away. Has some deadline? then polls other defendants about whether or not they wish to sit through jury instructions hearing. (Couldn’t hear answers.) Then gave everyone a fifteen minute break before hearing.
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Back at it with attorneys only at 5:23. Some scheduling housekeeping before getting into jury instructions.
Currently projected schedule:
-Defense to rest by lunch tomorrow. (Wednesday)
Items remaining:
-Jury Instructions
-Gov has one rebuttal witness
-Looks like Gov will also give closing argument tomorrow
-Defense closing arguments on Thursday
-Friday was clear as mud . . .
-But it looks like the Jury will get this on Monday
