Day 24 of Oath Keepers Trial - Nov 9
Good morning! This day has the potential for another fiery start, given the NY Times story about FBI CHS who was/is to testify for the . . . uh . . . defense. That, before his “medical emergency” while boarding his flight to DC. (All this in yesterday’s tweetstorm.) But, dude’s “CHS” status was under protective seal. Reporters aren’t suppose to know about that. (Unless they’re really good? Hmmm?) So, last night, the Government lawyers filed a “notice’ to the court abut the “UNDER SEAL NOTICE REGARDING POTENTIAL VIOLATION OF PROTECTIVE ORDER” which is basically asking the court to investigate if one of the defense attorneys leaked that info to The NY Times, and THAT “notice” was . . . <ahem> . . . “inadvertently” posted to a public site.
With any luck, we’ll see more barking and snipping between the opposing lawyers again this morning. Stay tuned . . . tweetstorm coming . . .
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Mehta takes the bench at 9:13am, but most of the defense team and none of the defendants are as yet in the courtroom. Okay, here we go . . . 9:17am.
Mehta: “Before we proceed to the matters that were raised last evening, anything we need to discuss before we go under seal?”
Mehta orders feed to media room cut and gallery cleared. And . . . we’re in the dark . . .
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At 9:50am the feed to the media room was restored, but Mehta is not on the bench, and none of the attorneys are seated. We can see the defendants and US Marshals.
A couple of the defense attorneys have wandered back in. (Maybe they’re the only survivors?) Ahhh . . . Nestler and his little gray wisp of hair has taken his seat. (Damn. No shoot-out at the DC Corral.)
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Mehta is back at 9:55 . . . Jury seated at 9:59 . . .
Bright - for Rhodes - Calls Michael Greene (“Whip”) to stand.
“You have counsel here, because you, in another J6 case, have been indicted as a co-conspirator. (five charges) By taking stand today, you are freely waiving your 5th amendment rights against self incrimination?”
“Correct.”
“You had already agreed to testify for the defense in this trial before you were indicted?”
“Correct.”
<LOUD objection from Nestler. He seems pissed about something.> Bright rephrases and gets same answer.
Worked as personal protection specialist, body guard work, and installs security systems before ‘this stuff’ began. Lives in Indiana. 39 years old. He has certification and or licensing for PSD work in at least two different states. Joined military in 2002. Army infantryman. He specifically chose a combat job in Army. He was training for Olympics as boxer and wrestler, but was deployed to Iraq in 2004. Spent time briefly describing his various missions in Iraq.
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After Army, (2006), worked for private military contractors, Blackwater (renamed “Academi”), in providing PSDs, to protect value government “assets” (people). Discussion describing what PSDs are vs. WWPS (World Wide Protective Service), as well as other military acronyms for personal security, as well as discussion of various of the other defense contractors he’d worked for, both domestically and overseas.
Was in Afghanistan in 2012 as DOD contractor with Academi, doing force protection and other security details. Discussion of ongoing and continuing education in all specifics of mission related details. After Afghanistan, worked with a company providing risk assessment security at their warehouses, and installing security systems.
First became aware of OKs in 2016, at an OKs booth at a gun show in Indiana. He saw guys he knew were “white supremacists” hanging out near OK booth, and had no interest in them. But a friend of his - also black, was an OK. (Greene is himself black.) HIs friend, Greg (McWhirter), assured him that the OKs were not a racist organization. Greg told Greene that Rhodes was looking for some personal protection pros, and first met Rhodes at the OKs Hurricane Harvey relief effort.
At Hurricane Harvey relief effort, he was specifically assigned to assist local law enforcement as those agencies were spread so thin as a result of the disaster. Greene described that they were welcomed by local law agencies. All OKs were carrying firearms while there. No violation of law. No use of firearms. Texas is “constitutional carry” state. Everyone was armed.
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After Harvey relief effort, Greene had little contact with OKs before 2020, though he did stay in contact, answering questions about certain security tactics and such. In 2020, before Louisville, Rhodes called Greene to get a threat assessment before they went to provide security for three different businesses in Louisville - requested BY those local businesses. (Ended up being only one business that they ended up protecting.) These were businesses that couldn’t afford to hire pro security to protect against rioters, looters, arsonists during the BLM riots.
Greene described himself as not really “giving a f-ck” about who are what BLM was or represented. He said there were riots going on everywhere, and he was just there to do a job.
Greens interacted with two Louisville-based OKs during threat assessment. Spoke with businesses that simply couldn’t afford professional security and knew police were not likely to be available when needed. He then observed volunteer OKs doing that very thing - protecting private businesses for rioters.
Discussion about the Stop The Steal rally in Atlanta - and another event in Michigan, at which he he was called by Rhodes to provide security directly for Ms. Sorrell, because she claimed to have witnessed actual voter fraud and ballot tampering, and was receiving personal threats. Greene WAS NOT an Oath Keeper himself, but was hired and paid security specifically for Ms. Sorrell.
The next event he attended with OKs was at Million MAGA March n DC, where they integrated with Alex Jones’ security team and some Proud Boys in providing a security “box” for VIPs in helping them move through the crowd. At MMM rally, Greene was aware of the OKs QRF at November MMM event. Greene adamantly defines a QRF as a defensive operation to be used only when “SHTF.”
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Greene describes his understanding of Rhodes’ theories about the possibility they’d need the QRF to protect Trump is the White House was overrun. Greene told Rhodes he was “crazy,” because “no one’s going to overrun the White House. They’ve got enough protection to slaughter the f-ck out of everybody.”
Discussion about the meet-up and BBQ at Caldwell’s farm, in which there was no discussion about overthrowing the government, attacking the Capitol, overturning the election, etc. Just a bunch of old military guys telling war stories and enjoying the camaraderie of being together.
Next event was the Jericho March in DC, in Dec. Greene’s job was to integrate with Praetorian Guard - Gen. Flynn’s paid security team. Greene simply discusses and advised those security personnel about tactics. He also witnessed OKs at the event providing “volunteer” PSDs for other speakers and VIPs. Discussion of the difference in how the QRF was set up for Jericho March, compared to MMM.
Questions about why OKs needed to provide security to event attendees. Gets into detailed description of having personally witnessed Antifa attacking unaccompanied individuals at MMM event. <Nestler objects and asks if he personally witnessed or saw it on video> Greene interrupts Nestler and in specific detail described several incidents of Antifa violence he saw with his own eyes.
More questions about whether Greene ever heard any OK plans to storm Capitol, stop election certification, overthrow the government, etc. while with OKs at Jericho March. “NO.”
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Questions turns to J6 planning. Because Siekerman had come down with COVID, and couldn’t make the event, Rhodes asked him to take his place as operation and planning lead for the J6 event.
Talk turns to how many of the OK Signal chats he’d been added to, how they could add people without their permission, how - unless one had notifications turned on - you could get thousands of unread messages.
“When the FBI took my phone, I had over 40,000 unread Signal messages.” (Point being . . . if he had notifications turned on, the phone would never stop beeping.)
Greene brought a sidearm to VA hotel, but never took it into the District. Greene emphatically stressed that they ALL knew they couldn’t bring firearms into DC.
His ONLY job description for J5 and J6 was to organize security details. He participated in no planning for anything other than PSDs. On 5th all he did was make sure OKs were at their assigned duties, and that things were running smoothly. During this time, he was in constant contact with Rhodes, and nothing other than personal security was ever discussed with Rhodes. He’d been given Siekerman’s original security plan, and used it as originally drafted with few minor changes.
Begins describing which of the different security details and their designated leaders had which PSD assignments, including certain of the defendants in this trail and other J6 trials.
Morning break called at 11:16am . . .
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Back in session at 11:35 . . . and Nestler is discussing the remote testimony timing with Greg McWirther for tomorrow. (Apparently that has been worked out.) More organizational discussion about witness juggling to maximize time without long breaks.
Jury reseated at 11:44am . . . Bright resumes direct of Greene.
Moving into J6, Greene describes that there was suppose to be a separate stage (Stage 7) set up for another group (Latinos for Trump?), and then another set up at the Capitol grounds. (Stage 8) Greene says there was suppose to be more OKs available for PSDs that day, but many didn’t show up. He estimated he had about 16 OKs available to him for those PSDs. He simply moved around from group to group to make sure they were doing their assigned jobs. As a result, Greene did not attend the Trump speech, itself.
The SC OK group was around the Stage 7 event. At some point Rhodes and Sorrell left Stage 7 to return to their hotel. Greene was eventually informed that “shit was going down” at the Capitol, and by the time he arrived to see what was going on, “it looked like Braveheart” . . . “it was a f-cking riot.” He stood around and watched what was happening, then started trying to text and call Rhodes, but they had difficulty making connections because of the overwhelmed cell services.
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Greene eventually was able to reach Rhodes, and heard from James about what was happening with Roger Stone detail. Eventually started trying to get in touch with all the various OK groups to meet-up and get back on mission. “Mission” being ONLY protections of speakers, VIPs, stages, and escort of people back to their vehicles. At no time did he direct any OK to go into Capitol building, assault police, interfere with election certification. He at no time ever saw any OK engaged in violence or in property destruction.
He did observe other OKs at the Capitol - maybe 15-20 - who were “just there,” but not involved in their particular PSDs. Then described leaving the Capitol, going back to hotel, Olive Garden, and then departing for Indiana. Didn’t speak to Rhodes again for about a week.
Greene became aware that some OKs went into Capitol when they reassembled on NE corner of Capitol, and one OK said he’d gone in, and Rhodes said, “That was f-cking stupid.”
“Were you ever personally aware of any plan to lay siege to the capitol . . . storm the rotunda . . . stop the certification of election?” . . . NO. NO. NO.
“Would you ever go on a mission with the military with an IMPLICIT plan?” . . . NO sir. Nothing is implied in the military.
“Was there an implicit plan to do any of the things we’ve talked about on J6?” . . . NO.
No further questions Your Honor . . .
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<sidebar> Woodward - for Meggs - to examine Greene <sidebar>
Woodward brings into evidence a written “threat assessment” document created by Greene, himself, for the Louisville, KY operation. This one for a Cuban restaurant that had received direct threats from the local Urban League. The form template itself was created by Greene and Greg McWirther. Greene was paid to create this threat assessment.
Greene recalls meeting Meggs for the first time at Louisville, and the next time at the MMM event.
No further questions . . .
AUSA Nestler begins cross. Does in-court IDs of defendants. (All except Harrelson.)
Nestler begins with question about the Signal chats. (Really, the only f-cking case the government has: scary words.)
Greene talks emphatically about the overwhelming nature of having too many messages coming in from too many groups he’d been added to - but would jump on the ones specifically dealing with the planning of security ops. Nestler about to bring evidence in, and . . .
<sidebar>
Comes back to ask if Greene was on GoToMeeting chats . . . then Nestler VERY MISTAKENLY opens up a conversation about Greene being just a “paid mercenary” for “war.” Greene proceeds to SCHOOL Nestler on the definitions of “mercenary,” “war’ “riots.”
Nestler plays audio from GoToMeeting call in which Rhodes spews his typical rhetoric. Once again Greene totally SCHOOLS Nestler on the nature of old military guys “talking shit,” just like “old guys in barber shops talk shit.” Nestler makes the mistake of asking him if any old guys from barber shops were at the Capitol. Greene proceeds to inform Nestler of many old guys from barber shops who were at the Capitol that day, including the fact he is personally standing trial with a couple guys who are “old as f-ck.”
Nestler continues to show Greene those same old bravado chats we’ve seen over and over. Greene is having NONE OF IT. Nestler keeps asking him leading questions about whether or not the OKs would be on the front lines if a Civil War broke out. Greene responds, “Who knows? You might be too.”
Nestler is trying his rapid-fire style of flying through bravado messages and chats to trip up Greene. He is unflappable. Bright. Educated. Unfazed by Nestler’s condescending style. (Most powerful defense witness thus far.) More and more slides, and Green has instant answers for each one.
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Nestler tried to get Greene to say the only reason he drove from IN to VA was so that he could bring his sidearm. Greene, responded, “I drove because it was cheaper.” Nestler pressed on the gun issue . . . (as if it matters one whit, legally . . . it doesn’t) . . . Again, Greene yields nothing to Nestler other than it being cheaper to drive, than fly.
More chat slides. More slides. More slides. (Again . . . these chats is ALL the government has. No DEEDS. No PLANNING. Just words and thoughts.)
Nestler again shows segment of OK video in which Greene can be seen in Louisville wearing OK logo on personal gear. Then shows a still photo Meggs and Harrison in Louisville. (Greene identifies Harrelson in courtroom.)
Nestler continues showing video of Greene in Louisville, and implies that he and OKs were inflaming the situation. Greene obviously disagreed.
Mehta calls for lunch break at 12:44pm . . .
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Mehta back in courtroom at 1:47pm . . . jury reseated at 1:53pm
Nestler resumes cross of Michael Greene. Begins asking him about photos Greene took on his phone on J6. Begins showing the “extractions” of those photos. First slides from quite a distance, and then one much closer to the Capitol, in which police officer is shooting less-than-lethal weapons at rioter. Greene confirms that he was talking to Rhodes and telling him that there was a riot happening, Rhodes said he would come that way.
Confirms he also had a confirmation with Joshua James, who was with Roger Stone. Nestler tries to get Greene to say that HE instructed those guys to come to Capitol, which he denies, and said THEY made that decision on their own. James said he’d take Roger Stone back to hotel and then come to Capitol. Greene didn’t know who was with James.
More photos from Greene’s phone: still from quite a distance, but says, “yes, it’s a riot.” Next photo taken from closer to inaugural staging. Now showing call record of phone call Green had with Rhodes at 2:31:34pm. Greene can’t say whether or not it is one of the 20-30 calls he attempted that actually connected. Then shows call a couple minutes later when Meggs connected to Rhodes, and then merged Greene in. Green has no memory of a call in which he was connected to Meggs for 90 seconds. Green rips Nestler up on all the variations of how a call can seem to be merged, while one line is connected to voice mail and look like its a three-way connection. (Greene is brilliant.)
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Nestler keeps trying to pin him on being in a three-way call with Rhodes and Meggs, and Greene will have none of it.
Nestler returns to message screenshots showing innocuous messages about getting guys to meet up with those are not on mission. Then a message from Vallejo at QRF who said he’s ready to move if they need him. Then another message looking for people not on mission to meet on south side of Capitol.
Another photo . . . from west side . . . then another at 3:15 from east side, quite some distance away . . . and Nestler tries to imply that he knew James group was entering Capitol.
Now, more messages from Rhodes trying to get everyone to meet at “NE corner of Capitol Building.” Then a message telling rest of groups where they were gathered.
Another photo of group finally gathered outside of Capitol Building on NE side, with Rhodes and others having conversations. More photos of entire group standing around. <yawn> More yawns . . . I mean, ‘photos’ of same. (A bunch of nonviolent guys standing some distance from Capitol, chatting.)
Nestler now shows more extracted messages - while trying to get Greene to admit that he thought - his acknowledgement of the Capitol being stormed, conflated with someone else first writing that it was an “amazing day.” (Nestler really stretching it now.)
Nestler now showing photos Greene had texted to non-OKs of non-OKs people “Storming the Capitol” . . .
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Greene explains that he intentionally kept everything on his phone - didn’t delete anything - once he knew there would be an FBI investigation.
Now talking about leaving the Capitol and going to Olive Garden. Nestler tries to lead Greene into acknowledging that more ‘future’ insurrectionist talk took place at dinner. Greene doesn’t acknowledge any specifics. Sorrell says she heard that the VA State Police were rounding up Trump supporters at their hotels in VA, so they made the decision to leave that night.
Nestler tries to pin Greene as being part of the group loading up weapons in the parking garage, but Greene says he parked on the street, and wasn’t a part of whatever they were doing and saying. Green did see those at gas station who moved rifles from one vehicle to another. Greene estimates they separated and left for home around 9 or 10pm on the 6th.
Next day, Greene sent a message to someone saying they needed to get their phone scrubbed.
Not further questions . . .
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Bright begins redirect. Were you a paid contractor of Rhodes? YES. Were you a mercenary? NO. That’s a battle term? YES.
From your experience, you all planned for one event at a time? YES. Greene explained they couldn’t possibly be talking about planning for a rally that had not yet even been announced.
Greene explains that when he was sending messages on J6, he was trying to make sure his guys were where they were suppose to be, doing what they were suppose to be doing, and getting everyone together when finished.
Wouldn’t you agree that if you were planning a mission, you’d put your most well-trained and experienced guys in charge? . . . Greene goes into long explanation of how he would choose men for certain positions.
You did not guide any of your guys into the Capitol or the Rotunda? NO
Did you hear any orders communicated to Kelly Meggs to enter the Capitol? NO
No more questions . . . Greene dismissed from stand . . .
Bright: “On behalf of Mr. Rhodes, we rest.”
<sidebar>
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Mehta tells the jury that ‘we’ve reached another milestone in this case, as the defense for Mr. Rhodes has completed their case. We will now continue with Mr Meggs case.”
Woodward - for Meggs - comes to the lectern. Calls Stephen Brown to witness stand. He does event planning for groups of 5,000 to 300,000 people. Lives in Lakeland FL. Also does work in DC. Organizes lots of events for the National Park Service and on the Mall.
Why would I hire you for an event in DC? “Because we’re very good at it, and we have very high standards . . . National Park Service says we leave the grounds in better condition than when we arrived.” Goes on to describe the typical planning process for an event they are hired to produced, in terms of integrations with DC agencies, etc.
Did you do any event planning for J6? YES.
Who asked you to plan an event onJ6? Ali Alexander.
Also worked with Ali Alexander at Jericho March. Met Stewart Rhodes at Jericho March, and saw OKs providing personal security, and was impressed with their professionalism. He has also worked with the Capitol Police, and explains that permitting and rules on Capitol properties are different than those of National Park.
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He is then asked to explain the permitting process through National Parks. Explains that permitting through NPS can takes months, but for Capitol events can be done in a few days.
Begins describing his next planning with Ali Alexander for an event to be planned on J6, on the Capitol grounds for a speaking event for him and a number of other guests speakers. He did then in fact secure a permit for an event on the Capitol grounds.
Image of the actual form for application of the event for Alexander’s event, in the name of his org, “One Nation Under God.” They were looking to build a 12x18 foot stage on the Capitol grounds, and their permit was approved. Image of the actual permit is shown to the court, which shows they were approved for “Section 8” and that there were several other events which had already been approved on Capitol grounds on the same day - J6.
Exhibit is displayed where on Capitol grounds they were permitted to build stage. More images shown of specific location of permitted event.
Discusses the types of radio comms they use during events, and the difficulty they had in using cell phones on day of J6.
Brown confirms that the actual permit shown to court was issued directly from The Capitol Police for their event near the east side steps of Capitol. Also discussed the possible attendance of actual Congressional leaders who had been invited to attend and speak on their permitted stage.
Exhibit is shown of list of VIP names sent from Alexander for speakers and VIP reserved seating requirements. Then there was some coordination with certain speakers at other events.
How does he describe the Oath Keepers function? “An organization that provides [unpaid] personal security details.”
“I am not a member of the Oath Keepers.”
They begin reviewing messages on Brown’s phone which discuss security planning for that day.
Mehta announces afternoon break at 3:23pm . . .
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Mehta back in courtroom at 3:44pm . . . Jury back at 3:49 . . .
Woodward continues direct of Mr. Brown . . . showing additional permit from J6. Begins showing Brown the Signal chats he was added to for “Jan 5/6 OK security/VIP Chat” - added 1/1/21
Begins showing slides of Signal chats dealing with all aspects of security planning, road closures, questions about intel on Antifa and other disruptive groups, etc.
Switches to DC OP chat, to which Brown was also added. Introduced thru this chat to person known as “horsewhisperer” who is a cyber security specialist. Also explains that they integrate with local Law enforcement on security arrangements and intel on possible threats or counter protestors. Brown received nothing of this nature from Capitol Police.
Showing messages on “Jan 5/6 OK security/VIP Chat” directly from Ali Alexander requesting details on security planning for J5 events - all day - from early afternoon until later than night at Freedom Plaza. Additional VIP list produced including members of Congress.
More slides discussing organization and security planning, which now has Gator 1 (Meggs) added, who would be working in these PSDs. Fliers produced by organizations with events and speakers listed.
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Alexander believed that the election had been stolen, and would be speaking to that concern at his events. Video shown, sent to chat that was an advertisement for the “Stop the Steal” rally.
On the morning of the 6th, the trucks arrive to build the stage and set up PA system, but because of the event taking place at the Ellipse, timelines were getting pushed back, as Trump was late for his speech - and went long. So, he continued to prepare and soundcheck the PA at the stage with crew, and contemplate how they would adjust times and schedules.
He eventually noticed that some barricades were being breached, and went to a USCP police post to notify them that there were large areas of barricades that had been removed.
No one ever did speak on their stage that day, as the riot disrupted everything. Then lengthy discussion about different barricades that were used to redirect foot traffic of marchers far out of the way of their destination to their stage. Eventually, other barricades were breached.
Brown describes how small the police presence was that day - that he had events as small as 5000 people in DC that had 3, 4, 5 times the size of place presence there on J6 - including SWAT teams.
From OK chats you were on . . . Did you see any plans about entering the Capitol or stopping the election certification? . . NO
Brown: “FBI contacted me for the first time two months ago. Someone leaked my name to them.”
No further questions . . .
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Nestler begins cross . . . and immediately begins badgering Brown with those bravado OK chats which he may or may not have ever seen. Then Nester shifts to trying to get Brown to admit that Oath Keepers were not “real’ security.
Nestler concludes by asking if any of the scheduled speakers ever showed up at the stage? . . . NO
Rhodes? . . . NO
Meggs? . . . NO
Ali Alexander? . . . NO
Congresspeople? . . . NO
No one showed up? . . . NO
No further questions . . . Woodward declines redirect.
<sidebar>
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Mehta announced and apologizes to jury that Court will be adjourned until Monday - due to weather-related travel schedule problems with witnesses out of Florida, and Veterans Day on Friday.
Mehta brings juror to stand to discuss her problem with the fact that she is scheduled to move to Texas on 18th - with lease ending here and beginning there, and movers already booked. She was under impression this trial would only last 4 to 6 weeks. Mehta wants to know if she can possibly stay “through Thanksgiving?” (Whoa.) She discusses problem with finding accommodations after her belongings are shipped to Texas. She asks Mehta how much longer she might have to try and plan to be here. He says he can’t give a satisfying answer, because he can’t predict how long they - the jury - will even deliberate. They will speak again, after she asks around about temporary accommodations.
Woodward comes forward to discuss his upcoming witnesses and scheduling. Mehta asks for Geyer to come forward with his schedule, and Geyer asks for sidebar.
Out of sidebar, and we cannot hear how long either Geyer, Crisp, or Fischer’s cases will be - as they were not in mics.
Mehta now says . . . Monday for Meggs . . . asks Geyer to have one witness on Monday, and two Tuesday . . . Atkins also Tuesday . . Caldwell on Wednesday and then short rebuttal by government . . . “best case scenario is that we finish cases by next Thursday.”
“Two days worth of closings.”
‘We could get the case to jury before Thanksgiving, in a perfect world.”
More talk about scheduling details . . . some on mic . . . some not. Mehta again expresses concern about jury’s schedules and time. Then more discussion about housekeeping session schedule tomorrow . . .
Dismissed at 5:54pm.
